A conversation includes messages from multiple folders, normally an Inbox type folder, and the Sent folder. We can’t display the folder for a conversation, because it is not a single folder.
Could the folder for each e-mail in a conversation not be shown next to that e-mail? So the location wouldn’t be at the highest-level, but shown for each individual message.
We had it like that before but due to significant demand we made the setting persistent as requested.
Ah right, fair enough. Is this something that could be made a user setting?
All which comes back to my request to completely rework search in eMC. Confusion rules. Features (Boolean operators etc.) as missing. It can be done so much better. Start with a clean sheet of paper.
Thos I support your complaints and right now I am 100% with gizmo2501 about product developers more defensive than about improving. I am very frustrated with these issues and very disheartened to see these valid questions treated like some annoying and ignorant child bugging a parent. This is very poor customer service and I am going to uninstall emClient.
Backing up eM Client means having at least as much free SSD space as the program uses. In my case this is means keeping 250Gb of free SSD space on my laptop which is very hard to keep available at all times.
Crashes happen a lot with eMC and it is not always at the most convenient time. Restarting the program often leads to an automatic repair starting.
If your mail database is 250gb (which looks like what you are saying) and you are getting random crashes and then database repairs again when reopening after the crash, that could be due to your extremely large size mail database.
So suggest if you do have a mail database that size and you have eg: alot of old mail (that you are not using currently), to maybe create a folder on an external harddisk called “Old Mail” and then move any old mail or old mail folders to those external drives to reduce the size of your database. The moved messages will then all be in .eml format which you can open anytime in eM Client or any .eml viewer. You can also then drag back any old email into eM Client later if you need it again integrates in your account.
But for the love of all that is holy, why does eMC not shut down cleanly when windows shuts down.
I also close eM Client before I shutdown Windows or my Mac as @skybat advised as otherwise you will risk corrupting eM Client due to the database is not being closed first before the OS shuts down.
Windows or Mac forcing programs to close on exit is never a good thing for any program in my opinion. Should allways close programs first.
Thanks cyberzork, I agree about archiving old email. The other day I needed to find a specific email and I found it! It was 11 years old and I also found the emails surrounding the topic at the time. It was a legal matter and it saved my bacon! If I can make all emails still full searchable when archived then it makes sense to do it. I suspect this will be difficult or at least very slow.
Your comment about eMC ignoring the command from windows to shut down cleanly has been hammered to death. Yes, you can try to be disciplined in shutting down eMC manually… But when working on a laptop when travelling or in a stressful environment it is not always possible. Sometimes you just have to shut the lid on your laptop and hope that windows and the open apps behave themselves or the battery gets low and windows goes into auto shutdown to save your data (but not in the case of eMC)… eMC are blaming Microsoft for this while being the only app I use that is not closing cleanly when told to do so.
Pretty much all my criticism of the product are down to Microsoft, user error or user ignorance. It is hard to get a dialogue to actually discuss an issue without getting one of these responses. Gary is a very responsive support operator… I have no criticism of him personally as he does a great job. My issue centers around the lack of interest in improving or at least discussing improving the product.
when working on a laptop when travelling or in a stressful environment it is not always possible. Sometimes you just have to shut the lid on your laptop and hope that windows and the open apps behave themselves or the battery gets low and windows goes into auto shutdown to save your data (but not in the case of eMC).
If you are using a laptop (and your battery lvl is fine), then as @skybat says you can shutdown normally in Sleep mode and eM Client will resume fine from the testing as I’ve also done many times on my own laptop & desktop with Win 10 & 11.
However as you just sometimes slam the lid shut as you say being in a rush and quote:- (hope that windows and apps behave themselves), you are then playing with fire believing that Windows will guarantee to never corrupt programs in those two scenarios. If your other open programs do all survive that, then it’s a miracle they do.
The only thing I can suggest if you sometimes have to slam the lid down and quickly go or the battery power gets very low and the laptop then auto shuts down, is setting your laptop to “Hybrid sleep mode” if you haven’t tried that already.
According to Microsoft after going into Hybrid sleep, due to a eg: power cut or instant shutdown, the laptop will boot back up quickly, preserving the data of open programs. You can see how to set that up via their technical website forum’s.
However if Hybrid sleep mode also doesn’t work, then you would have to speak to Microsoft as they write the OS and control how it shuts down.
This is to follow on from @cyberzork post above.
1./ I also occasionally need to close my laptop lid quickly, I have this action set to Sleep not Shut Down
2./ If in the rare situation my laptop battery runs low I get an automatic warning, followed by a critical alert, it does not suddenly shut down
Both items #1 & #2 can be set and customized in Win10 & Win11 and there are several Youtube videos covering this.
Guys,I know all this, but my question is really what happend when windows is told to shutdown and eMC is still open. Gary says its a user error not to manually shut down the application or that it is a microsoft problem and I should talk to them (good luck with that).
However hard I try to rememebr to shut down eMC before asking windows to shut down I sometimes forget or think it has shutdown, but some dialog is still keeping it open… Because all other applications I use play well with windows it is a hard habit to break.
Windows and Applications communicate with a series of messages when shutting down. When windows is told to shut down it sends a WM_QUERYENDSESSION to all open applications and if any one of them responds with a zero windows stops shutting down. If eMC is not getting this message it is not registred correctly as being “an open application”. There is a long list of messaging commands available and each open application has some flexibility how to respond. Such as shutting down and loosing data, or simply stop the shutdown process, register for automatic restart on boot-up, request a delay so that it can shut down properly and so on… many many options.
eMC seems not to want to play this game with windows or is not seen as a registered application. In any case it is something I am requesting the programmers to consider looking into to help make the application more bullet proof.
No, that is not what I said. It was to prove a point. If you shut down eM Client yourself, you probably don’t get the issue, because eM Client is shut down correctly.
If you let Windows shutdown eM Client, on your device it is doing it incorrectly. It terminates the application, rather than shutting it down, so leaves the database in a state that can’t be used. That means a database check is essential on the next start, because it can’t be used in the termated state it was left in. We run the database check to put it back in a usable state and to ensure your data is safe, because your OS incorrectly terminated the application.
If I am the only one with this issue, how come so many other users are being oh-so careful to shut down eMC before shutting down windows? Am I really the only one where all applications are shut down correcty except for eMC? Is this an issues that only I have?
If yes, then I guess I will need to do a complete re-install. If not then my request remains…
Just curious… It’s been many years since I did any Windows programming in VB or C (and not very much at that) but as I recall it was possible to trap and respond to the terminate message, thereby giving opportunity to shut down an app cleanly. Is this not still possible?
For the record, we do intercept WM_QUERYENDSESSION and WM_ENDSESSION messages and try to shut down as cleanly as possible.
For most cases it should work but it’s difficult to diagnose when it does not. This is tested on multiple Windows versions with regular shut downs, and on several developer machines with the rmtool used to simulate the restart messages from Restart Manager in Windows.
We are not aware on any specific cases where the mechanisms currently fail, otherwise we would have fixed them already. There’s one specific shutdown issue with hanging processes that was reported by several users and tracked as upstream .NET bug (Deadlock with SystemEvents when application is shutdown · Issue #78384 · dotnet/runtime · GitHub). Aside from that we have a way to log the shutdown sequence by adding a value to registry (Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\eM Client\Logging, Type: DWORD, Name: Shutdown, Value: 1). It creates a log named “WM Tracing <date/time>” in the standard eM Client log directory (location is in the Settings, along with a button to Send the logs as attachment to our support team).
And the issue with reseting/not reseting a search scope every time, we’ll consider an option for this, because as Gary mentioned, there were a lot of complaints when this option was not remembered earlier.
You ask if if you are the only one - I do not know if you are or what others are doing or experience, however, I do know that you are experiencing the issue with eMC as you are not following what is, I have always believed to be the accepted way, even if inconvenient, to exit.
As the result of this I now close all running programs before a complete computer shut down though mostly I use sleep with a once a week approximately shut down unless there is an interim OS or other update in which case I will have closed all running programs anyway. (Better to be Safe than Sorry)
As an analogy, my car will not start unless I follow a particular procedure: it must be in park plus I must press the foot brake before the starter will engage; I have a choice accept this or buy a different car as I do not expect the manufacturer to change their procedure, the only thing I can change is the stop/start nonsense which I can disengage.
I do not believe a complete re-install of eMC will make any difference, though I will be happy to be proved wrong, it is more likely to be an MS idiosyncrasy.
¡Suerte!
skybat
¡Los mejores desde Kalesma Mykonos y mantente a salvo!
We will also fix number 3) from your list
11) will be a eM 10 feature (already implemented)
16) this is also already implemented
17) we would need more repro assistance, because we don’t experience such behavior on our end
19) this is not that easily possible, you have to consider that we always pay for such services and it is not convenient from the business perspective to use multiple of these services
Hello Skybat,
if you are aware of translations (I guess you meant user interface translations) that don’t fit please report that to us. We put quite a lot of effort to prevent this, but with such a complex software and 20+ translations, this is not an easy task.
I mentioned my concerns about the search function and how it deserves a re-think… Here is an example of it misbehaving. The email is in my “inbox” but does not appear in the “search folder”. The email addresses ar correct and other similar email are filtered correctly.
I have created a search folder based on a search and which is looking for any email in any of my folders/accounts that includes me as a primary recipient (as opposed to BC or CC). This is very convenient as it gives a quick way to see the important emails without having to trawl through every account and every email. I do not use this all the time, only when I need to quickly check if I might have missed an important one. I seem to have gotten into the habit of looking at this search folder first thing in the morning as I plan my days activities. I then look through all of my inboxes as the morning progresses.
What is very dangerous is that the search filter misses some emails from time to time as you can see. It does this in search folders as well as in general searches I decided that it was worth showing you the attached example. The time is now 14:30 and the email is question arrived at 9:30 suggesting it is not just a delayed action as the filter should not need 5 hours to update the filter folder.
