My list of requests.. Curious if I am alone with these

I know… But for the love of all that is holy, why does eMC not shut down cleanly when windows shuts down. EVERY single program I use (I just counted my open apps and there are 17) shut down cleanly when windows shuts down. There is a mechanism in windows that communicates with open apps and eMC is ignoring this. This has been a feature of windows for decades.

When you try to log off, shutdown or restart your PC, Windows 10/11 will give you the chance to save your work before gracefully closing all open programs. If you don’t take any action for a minute, it will bring you back to the desktop.

There is a dialog between windows and open apps whereby if the app does not shut down properly windows comes back to the user with “this app is preventing windows from shutting down”. To proceed with the shutdown or restart the process, you have to click on “Shut down anyway”. This doesn’t show up for eMC.

What Windows does do is send all applications a message that Windows is about to shut down and they should do whatever is necessary. Typically the application would do whatever clean-up action is necessary and then close. If the application ignores this message, or does not reply in a timely manner, to interrupt the shut-down process, leading to an error message, the session will end. At this point there is no way for an application to stop the process. This explains the 45 minutes of repair needed when I start eMC and which is screwing up my working life.

There is no reason to suspect a Windows problem. Not sending this message would have major consequences and would have been caught early in testing. And we know it works for all applications other than eMC. I strongly suspect this is an application problem. Applications do not get nearly the same level of testing as does Windows.

Simply saying it is a user problem for not shutting down eMC before closing windows does not cut it any more in 2023. We have the right to expect our apps to have enough intelligence to protect our data. Imagine if this happened with Apple products? There would be riots.

Please please implement this function as soon as humanly possible. I will pay you to do it !!! Who do I pay? How much do you want?

It is not eM Client that is not closing correctly. It is because Windows itself is terminating the application incorrectly. There is absolutely nothing we can do if your OS terminates applications like that. Maybe something for you to ask Microsoft about?

I do not believe this… Windows sends a command to eMC to close and eMC decides what to do in response.

Then it will close correctly, and there will be no database check on the next start.

But that is not what is happening. Windows just terminates the application on your device for some reason, leaving the database corrupt. A database repair will need to be run on the next start.

But only with eMC… strange.

Search is extremely complex and confusing.

  1. It should default to searching whatever folder or account you currently have selected, and be highlighted if any options other than that are selected.

  2. Because there is no way to show a column that shows the last date and time of any e-mail in the Conversation, Sent and Received e-mails can end up in a weird order. You can have an e-mail you sent Today be displayed as the Oldest e-mail, if you sort by Received instead.

Related: Last message date and time column for Conversation view

  1. There is nothing telling you what folder searched e-mails are in under an account.

  2. “Current Folder” does not include all folders when you have the account selected. Given that it is the highest level of the hierarchy, it should include all folders in the search. Instead, it only includes the Inbox.

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It depends on what options you have selected in the dropdown in the search box.

There is a column for that in single line layout. But you need to disable Conversations first.

Current Folder is exactly that - current folder. Instead use the “Current folder and subfolders” option.

Hey Gary.

It depends on what options you have selected in the dropdown in the search box.

I know, that’s my point. The default should be to search whatever account or folder you currently have selected, not whatever previous settings you applied in the dropdown on a previous search.

There is a column for that in single line layout. But you need to disable Conversations first.

There are so many instances (bugs or feature requests) where the feedback is to disable Conversation view. It feels like eMClient does not care about developing features for, fixing bugs with, or working on improving Conversation view. If it’s given as an option, why not support it? (By the way, this is not meant to read as a personal attack at all - it’s a genuine question.)

Current Folder is exactly that - current folder. Instead use the “Current folder and subfolders” option.

Exactly. And the account level is the highest level of the hierarchy. If you select the account, that is the “folder”. So it should include ALL folders and e-mails within that account. But it doesn’t. It only includes the Inbox. The account level is not the same as the Inbox folder, but eMClient’s search treats it like it is.

This is not a bug. A conversation includes messages from multiple folders, normally an Inbox type folder, and the Sent folder. We can’t display the folder for a conversation, because it is not a single folder.

No, that is not actually a folder, but we display the Inbox when you click on the account name. If you want to include sub-folders, select the option for “Current folder and subfolders”. We make a distinction between a single folder and a folder and sub-folder because there is a difference, and it gives the user better control over where they want to search.

We had it like that before but due to significant demand we made the setting persistent as requested.

Thanks for coming back on this.

A conversation includes messages from multiple folders, normally an Inbox type folder, and the Sent folder. We can’t display the folder for a conversation, because it is not a single folder.

Could the folder for each e-mail in a conversation not be shown next to that e-mail? So the location wouldn’t be at the highest-level, but shown for each individual message.

We had it like that before but due to significant demand we made the setting persistent as requested.

Ah right, fair enough. Is this something that could be made a user setting?

All which comes back to my request to completely rework search in eMC. Confusion rules. Features (Boolean operators etc.) as missing. It can be done so much better. Start with a clean sheet of paper.

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Thos I support your complaints and right now I am 100% with gizmo2501 about product developers more defensive than about improving. I am very frustrated with these issues and very disheartened to see these valid questions treated like some annoying and ignorant child bugging a parent. This is very poor customer service and I am going to uninstall emClient.

@Thos

Backing up eM Client means having at least as much free SSD space as the program uses. In my case this is means keeping 250Gb of free SSD space on my laptop which is very hard to keep available at all times.

Crashes happen a lot with eMC and it is not always at the most convenient time. Restarting the program often leads to an automatic repair starting.

If your mail database is 250gb (which looks like what you are saying) and you are getting random crashes and then database repairs again when reopening after the crash, that could be due to your extremely large size mail database.

So suggest if you do have a mail database that size and you have eg: alot of old mail (that you are not using currently), to maybe create a folder on an external harddisk called “Old Mail” and then move any old mail or old mail folders to those external drives to reduce the size of your database. The moved messages will then all be in .eml format which you can open anytime in eM Client or any .eml viewer. You can also then drag back any old email into eM Client later if you need it again integrates in your account.

But for the love of all that is holy, why does eMC not shut down cleanly when windows shuts down.

I also close eM Client before I shutdown Windows or my Mac as @skybat advised as otherwise you will risk corrupting eM Client due to the database is not being closed first before the OS shuts down.

Windows or Mac forcing programs to close on exit is never a good thing for any program in my opinion. Should allways close programs first.

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Thanks cyberzork, I agree about archiving old email. The other day I needed to find a specific email and I found it! It was 11 years old and I also found the emails surrounding the topic at the time. It was a legal matter and it saved my bacon! If I can make all emails still full searchable when archived then it makes sense to do it. I suspect this will be difficult or at least very slow.

Your comment about eMC ignoring the command from windows to shut down cleanly has been hammered to death. Yes, you can try to be disciplined in shutting down eMC manually… But when working on a laptop when travelling or in a stressful environment it is not always possible. Sometimes you just have to shut the lid on your laptop and hope that windows and the open apps behave themselves or the battery gets low and windows goes into auto shutdown to save your data (but not in the case of eMC)… eMC are blaming Microsoft for this while being the only app I use that is not closing cleanly when told to do so.

Pretty much all my criticism of the product are down to Microsoft, user error or user ignorance. It is hard to get a dialogue to actually discuss an issue without getting one of these responses. Gary is a very responsive support operator… I have no criticism of him personally as he does a great job. My issue centers around the lack of interest in improving or at least discussing improving the product.

@Thos

when working on a laptop when travelling or in a stressful environment it is not always possible. Sometimes you just have to shut the lid on your laptop and hope that windows and the open apps behave themselves or the battery gets low and windows goes into auto shutdown to save your data (but not in the case of eMC).

If you are using a laptop (and your battery lvl is fine), then as @skybat says you can shutdown normally in Sleep mode and eM Client will resume fine from the testing as I’ve also done many times on my own laptop & desktop with Win 10 & 11.

However as you just sometimes slam the lid shut as you say being in a rush and quote:- (hope that windows and apps behave themselves), you are then playing with fire believing that Windows will guarantee to never corrupt programs in those two scenarios. If your other open programs do all survive that, then it’s a miracle they do.

The only thing I can suggest if you sometimes have to slam the lid down and quickly go or the battery power gets very low and the laptop then auto shuts down, is setting your laptop to “Hybrid sleep mode” if you haven’t tried that already.

According to Microsoft after going into Hybrid sleep, due to a eg: power cut or instant shutdown, the laptop will boot back up quickly, preserving the data of open programs. You can see how to set that up via their technical website forum’s.

However if Hybrid sleep mode also doesn’t work, then you would have to speak to Microsoft as they write the OS and control how it shuts down.

lunes 07 agosto 2023 :: 1813hrs (UTC +0200)

This is to follow on from @cyberzork post above.
1./ I also occasionally need to close my laptop lid quickly, I have this action set to Sleep not Shut Down
2./ If in the rare situation my laptop battery runs low I get an automatic warning, followed by a critical alert, it does not suddenly shut down

Both items #1 & #2 can be set and customized in Win10 & Win11 and there are several Youtube videos covering this.

¡Suerte!

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Guys,I know all this, but my question is really what happend when windows is told to shutdown and eMC is still open. Gary says its a user error not to manually shut down the application or that it is a microsoft problem and I should talk to them (good luck with that).

However hard I try to rememebr to shut down eMC before asking windows to shut down I sometimes forget or think it has shutdown, but some dialog is still keeping it open… Because all other applications I use play well with windows it is a hard habit to break.

Windows and Applications communicate with a series of messages when shutting down. When windows is told to shut down it sends a WM_QUERYENDSESSION to all open applications and if any one of them responds with a zero windows stops shutting down. If eMC is not getting this message it is not registred correctly as being “an open application”. There is a long list of messaging commands available and each open application has some flexibility how to respond. Such as shutting down and loosing data, or simply stop the shutdown process, register for automatic restart on boot-up, request a delay so that it can shut down properly and so on… many many options.

A short summary is here: Shutting Down - Win32 apps | Microsoft Learn

eMC seems not to want to play this game with windows or is not seen as a registered application. In any case it is something I am requesting the programmers to consider looking into to help make the application more bullet proof.

No, that is not what I said. It was to prove a point. If you shut down eM Client yourself, you probably don’t get the issue, because eM Client is shut down correctly.

If you let Windows shutdown eM Client, on your device it is doing it incorrectly. It terminates the application, rather than shutting it down, so leaves the database in a state that can’t be used. That means a database check is essential on the next start, because it can’t be used in the termated state it was left in. We run the database check to put it back in a usable state and to ensure your data is safe, because your OS incorrectly terminated the application.

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If I am the only one with this issue, how come so many other users are being oh-so careful to shut down eMC before shutting down windows? Am I really the only one where all applications are shut down correcty except for eMC? Is this an issues that only I have?

If yes, then I guess I will need to do a complete re-install. If not then my request remains…