“Avalonia will not help us at all. It would mean to start UI development from the scratch. Please note, that eM Client is not based on WPF, but Windows Forms”
Also on your point about an Increase to 6% globally for Linux users by that Linux Experiment. That might be for eg: Linux servers, “but for end users” would still really be around 4% globally.
Also even if it was 6% global Linux end users, how many of them would actually pay to then warrant justifying developing the app. I agree with @skybat that I don’t think it’s viable atm. But obviously eM Client will make that decision.
Also see this post extract from @Michal_Burger on the possibility of eM Client with Wine on Linux.
“Yes, we continously monitor it and we have even made a proof of concept for the “Wine” option and cost analysis for “Wine” and “Native” options. Currently it is not justifiable, but this may change in the future. We may reconsider that again after eM Client 11 release”
I’m hearing you brother, but…
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It will be many many years till mainstream move to alternative OS systems, if we could get the Linux consortium to which I’ve wanted from the start to just have one OS called, Linux, and ditch all the rest, instantly you would have a version of emclient.
But the end of the Win10, most like Win7 migrated to Mac, and or installed vboxes of the Win10/11 now as I do also. It’s a far better option for advances users.
The rest will stay gamers on Windows11, illustrators, designers, engineers, musicians, will all stay on Mac.
The Adv yes will keep using Linux over the next 3-4 years and yes I believe to and increase for sure.
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Vulcan / Metal / DirectX in webgpu tho on another note from dev point of view is the way to go also not fixed on an OS anymore and we can achieve the speed from low lvl hardware for games via browsers too.
More to the point of things will move to browser based.
I see this more and more with code editors online In use every day. Platform dependency no issues.
If one codes properly in Java/css/html chromium based you won’t have issues even Firefox and Safari implementing webgpu in Firefox 142 and Safari OS 26 also, even games with be cross platform ok.
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Just wanting to make the point webview bundled packaged application full screen windowed of the emclient would also work fine. But again yes, let’s get the codeweavers at least in the short term and revisit a Debian Linux n the future I totally agrees.
If we can get ppl to code one Linux disto all the better.
Actually if you consider only the server world, Linux dominates. If you want to put Android into the mix, as Android sits on top of a Linux kernel, Linux dominates. 4%-6% refers to Desktop Linux.
As you can see here, AI search gives a lower figure for Desktop Linux but that is probably based on older information. But in any case, much more than the 1.5% that is used to be. The figures for 6% comes from recent network activity that comes from analyzers such as Lansweeper, StatCounter, etc.
While on server side Linux dominates, for sure those would not be numbers eMClient would use to justify development.
And yeah I guess if they have been using something totally different then yes, going to Avalonia would mean many to a few changes for sure.. I’m saying a few because if it was done using WPF, the effort would be significantly less.
Anyway, just wanted to share this info, Linux is in a lot more places than many people realize.
All good points. I think that many people are a bit scared of Linux thinking it would be very difficult but it is actually a lot easier than it used to be but still most people think it’s for the techies. I mean, installing Davinci Resolve on Fedora or any Linux distro for that matter is no walk in the park mainly because Davinci Resolve supports very specific distros. But I was happy to get it to work there. I’m quite happy tunning photos with GIMP and Darktable for raw files. But yeah, most people would probably go from Windows to a MAC or just straight to a MAC to use the professional tools like illustrator or to produce music.
But I hear you… It will be a while still before things change a bit more for developers of games for example to build native clients for Windows, etc. Talking of development, for anyone doing C#, it is now possible more than ever on Linux; I’m using Jetbrains Rider to do so and coming from the Visual Studio world, it is a great IDE. But I digress…
Win 11 is terrible in my opinion. I would also like to switch from MS to Linux. I like Em Client, and it would be great if there was a Linux version. Looking at Google Trends and other OS statistics, Linux is gaining momentum, and I suspect this will increase in the future given the poor reviews of Windows 11.
I’m putting in my vote for Linux support as well. I have been a long time supporter of Linux at work, but the time has finally come for home desktop as well due to the ongoing privacy concerns and endless unneeded AI with Windows 11 and beyond. More and more people than I talk with on my circle of friends and family offline are making the switch to Linux due to the Windows issues previously stated and/or because their perfectly working computer hardware is not supported by Windows 11. Distros like Mint Linux make it so easy for nearly everybody to switch. The only app I’m really missing on Linux is eM Client at this point, but I guess I’ll need to let it and my license go and downgrade to Thunderbird in order to leave Windows behind.
Leaving Windows is a real trend and I really hope that eM Client seriously consider supporting Linux very soon. I’d buy back in, if needed, without much thought at all! Thanks.
Perhaps with the advent of AI, a profitable port to Linux will finally become possible.
With Windows 10 being EoL, all the bad decisions surrounding Windows 11, and surging MS business license prices, more and more businesses/people will make the switch (take a look at all the developers/programmers or personal gaming on Windows with SteamOS/bazzite/pop!os).
Furthermore, besides Thunderbird (which handles like crap and is a UX-pain to set up, IMO), there aren’t any e-mail/calendar/groupware clients with a proper UI design available on Linux.
A good point, theres only Thunderbird on Linux I prefer Betterbird. Windows 11 is better than back a few years ago. Personally I turned from Linux to macOS.
I just want to say that I have no real issue with Windows 11 as an operating system, it’s great for desktops at its core, the actual problem is all the anti-consumer stuff stacked on top of it. My personal decision to switch to Linux for good was due to the announcement that they’d force online account linking to use the OS at all, and the fact that I figured out Windows 11 would frequently corrupt my Linux partition with the help of Secure Boot and TPM, even though Linux was always installed on a different drive but the OS has clearly become too dangerous to my actual computer. Corrupting other operating systems installed next to it, I have to treat Windows as malware at that point.
Though, to get to the actual point: I don’t think Microsoft can be trusted, and for the betterment of humanity and open computing we need to have suitable alternatives. Linux has the best odds at becoming said alternative but there’s always been this chicken-and-egg problem. This can only be broken if some of us make sacrifices to get there which includes both consumers passing up on some software they may not be able to use (or at least not as conveniently) as well as corporations supporting Linux despite it not making much business sense.
As for myself, I had already noted that I still use eM Client and I’m running it with the help of Wine and Bottles which has been working fine thus far. But this isn’t something that the average person should have to do/think about and ideally in the future we’d see them visit their Flatpak GUI of choice and download eM Client from there.
Sad you don’t trust Microsoft, I have various MiniPcs with Windows 11, they work well. Multiboot is not an option if you install Windows, they made that clear. Flatpak is a nice feature, if the vendors support it well enough.
It’s not that Microsoft can’t be trusted due to things they could potentially do, I’m actually basing this on things that have already happened. Requiring an online account and corrupting other file system partitions is insane and I’d never have expected them to go that far some odd years ago.
Dual-booting used to work fine in the almost 15 years I’ve been doing it, it only stopped being feasible with the introduction of Windows 11 and TPM and Secure Boot.
So if Windows 11 works on your machines that’s good, I’m not saying it doesn’t work, I’m saying it’s a privacy nightmare and a danger to any OS on your PC that isn’t Windows
I’m actually basing this on things that have already happened. Requiring an online account and corrupting other file system partitions is insane.
If Windows 11 install is corrupting other file system partitions on your main PC when dual booting, then you could eg: pickup another cheap standalone refurbished Win 11 Mini pc or refurbished Mac Mini computer to run it on.
I’ve done that with many friends where they eg: couldn’t run Windows 11 on old hardware.
As for myself, I had already noted that I still use eM Client and I’m running it with the help of Wine and Bottles which has been working fine thus far. But this isn’t something that the average person should have to do/think about and ideally in the future we’d see them visit their Flatpak GUI of choice and download eM Client from there.
I’ve no idea about Flatpack, but see the below post from @Michal_Burger for possible eM Client Linux options in the future on Wine or Native.
If Windows 11 install is corrupting other file system partitions on your main PC when dual booting, then you could eg: pickup another cheap standalone refurbished Win 11 Mini pc or refurbished Mac Mini computer to run it on.
I’ve done that with many friends where they eg: couldn’t run Windows 11 on old hardware.
Why would I do that? I’m certainly not going to buy more computers I don’t need just for one operating system. That seems really backwards and not economical. It also goes against the thing I said which is Windows having become a privacy nightmare. I don’t want it on systems where I manage personal files anymore.
I’ve in fact being doing the opposite, I’ve installed Linux on all my computers including my living room Chuwi mini PC. The only device still running some form of Windows is a Lenovo Legion Go and since I only use that to play video games and Xbox games where I’m connected to Microsoft servers anyway it’s not that important.
My experience of Linux and trying to get EM to work using Crossover always failed at the last hurdles. It would install and even work in some ways but there was always a menu setting or something that would freeze it or it would crash with no apparent reason. I tried for a long time to make it work and was very sad to fail. I ended up with Betterbird which worked well.
EMClient apparently not working on Linux is the main reason for me to stay on Windows. A Linux Version would probably at this point. change that. I and probably others are happy to preorder at a higher price if this helps profitability
@Michal_Burger I wanted to respond here because I came upon this thread while looking at your product as a replacement for outlook. I had a few things I wanted to say:
Considering Microsoft’s quest to remove every bit of privacy for add paygates/etc to even standard features in Windows 12, there are going to be more Linux users in the world.
Your comment about all Linux users never wanting to buy software is casting an awefully wide net and frankly its borderline offensive. We are looking at a corporate funded replacement for outlook, and we use far more Linux machines than Windows. Plus, you may want to look at the revenue Valve takes from Steam and Gamers in general. There is LOTS of money in linux users - they just perhaps prefer to pay for things they actually need instead of a bloated OS (windows).
I can understand that the porting costs are massive. That’s a decision for you - as someone pointed out perhaps consider it in your future framework decisions - OR an alternative might be to task a smaller team to work on making sure the existing versions are very compatible with emulators. Means you can just put together a blog entry on how to get it running and spend much less gaining access to the linux based market.
Anyway, just my 2c. I’m still deciding if we will buy Em or not, part of that decision though will be based on weather or not we can get it running stable on linux in an emulator. Looks like a nice product, so I have my fingers crossed.
