Lots of problems with Gmail

So I downloaded eM Client to evaluate about a week ago. I like everything about it except for the fact that it doesn’t actually seem to be working property, at least with Gmail.

First, having to export “All Mail” (Show in IMAP) has caused all kinds of problems with my other mail clients (Mail.app on MacOS and Aqua Mail on Android). eM Client is the only client I am aware of that requires this. (I was under the understanding that Gmail did plain old, standard imap these days, is that not the case? Why do you need “All Mail”?) At the very least this has kicked off repeated, massive downloads on all my other devices and surprises like waking up to have Mail.app telling me I have 27,000 new messages. And seemingly every time eM Client does anything it cause all the other clients, including itself, to redownload every message on Gmail.

Which brings me to a specific problem I am having with eM Client. It apparently keeps re-downloading everything on Gmail over and over. So last night I decided that maybe I’d messed something up so I started fresh. Deleted my accounts in eM Client. Uninstalled it, including settings and data. Then Re-installed it. Set eM Client back up again adding Gmail and an A&TT account. Both imap. eM client then started downloading “All Mail”. That took 14 hours during which I never touched eM Client at all. I then started using it, looked at a message from the Gmail account and moved it to the trash. And eM Client then almost immediately started downloading something. Not sure what. The “Operations” window shows the Gmail icon with a down-pointing arrow and says “my-email-address (IMAP) / Downloading messages”. In the like 4 hours since it started this the progress bar is still just a sliver on the left. At the rate it is downloading I expect it to take more than a day to finish. And network monitoring shows that it is indeed downloading something from Gmail. But really, really slowly (perhaps Google is throttling me for downloading 17 years of emails over and over and over again) And as a bonus, Mail.app on one of my Macs has also started downloading 22,000+ messages. - which I stopped.

I am also having problems with disappearing messages which I posted about in another thread.

All of this is exactly what it has been doing since I first installed it.

Searching these forums I see issues similar to mine going back for years but I so far haven’t found any resolution.

All of this is disappointing me greatly since I otherwise really like eM Client and really want to give you my money. But if I can’t use eM Client reliably with Gmail, I can’t use it.

I’m sorry for the tone of this message and genuinely hope that someone can help me get eM Client working but I am frustrated after having spent a ton of time on this so far and knowing that regardless I will have to deal with the headache of getting my other email clients back where they were before I started all this.

Up-to-date Windows 10 and eM Client 8.1.1060 (ae1b098)

Edit to add: I just restarted Mail.app on one of my Macs and it immediately started trying to download 44,000+ emails. I don’t know where the problem is or what to do about it but it appears that eM Client is not playing well with other email clients. I can’t have this in a production environment so for now I am disabling eM Client and turning off export of Gmail’s “All Mail” folder. I really, really hope that there is a solution to this because I really, really like eM Client but if there isn’t then my search for a Windows 10 email client will have to continue.

Hi,

Thank you for your detailed report. We’ll need a bit more information in order to resolve the matter so please open menu Settings->Advanced->Logging and check “IMAP” under the problematic account. Restart eM Client, try to simulate the issue and send me the logs using the same logging settings window at wilson@emclient.com. Thank you.

GW

OK, I’ll do that. But it may be a few days. I’ve got to get Mail.app on several Macs working right again. One of them seems to have repaired itself OK after un-exporting “All Mail”, the others are still working on it. Here is what one of them was doing last night after I started using eM Client and before I shut it off:

Screen Shot 2021-02-09 at 11.32.06 PM

The other thing I seem to be fighting is that it looks like the Gmail account in question has been massively throttled.

@notMyUserName It is normal on Mac & PC using email clients that when you setup a Gmail account using IMAP, the “All Mail” folder will synchronize “all email message headers” from all your email folders in Gmail online to your local computer. This can take sometime depending on how many emails you have online in total.

Once it completes though, eM Client will then normally only synchronize “any new changes” from your folders online every X minutes you set in eM Client settings.

I suspect the downloading messages screenshot you show above is eg: just the Gmail message headers downloading and is not all synchronized as yet to your local eM Client database folders.

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That screenshot is from Mail.app (Not eM Client), which became unstable after installing eM Client on a Windows 10 machine and exporting Gmail’s All Mail as an IMAP folder.

Until I installed eM Client I’d never needed to export All Mail before (none of the other clients that I’ve used ever needed it) and have never had it exported until now so this has never happened before. After the problems I had I un-exported All Mail on Gmail and I am currently using Thunderbird on Windows and it works fine without it and Mail.app has successfully rebuilt its database on one Mac and is working on it on the others. I think it’s taking forever because Gmail seems to have severely throttled downloads on that account. I understand that once it is exported any client set to keep a local copy of email that becomes aware of All Mail is going to download it. But not over and over again like seems to be happening. The other thing I don’t understand is that these clients seem to be downloading considerably more messages than are in Gmail’s All Mail folder on that account (at least according to Gmail’s web interface). For example, there aren’t 41,000+ messages in that Gmail account’s All Mail.

@notMyUserName I personally have never had to export All Mail in eM Client for a Gmail IMAP setup on PC or Mac. It’s not normal as you said that you would have to do that for IMAP.

Are you exporting All Mail in eM Client due to eg: a message comes up that you need to ?

Also i’ve never had any re-downloading of messages (constantly) “once emails are synched” using Gmail official app on Android or iPhone.

Can you test the “official Gmail app” on your Android or iPhone mobile or tablet to see if that app is also re-downloading messages constantly after synching has completed. Also how long does it take.

Yes. When I installed the latest version of eM Client over the weekend (this is a new Windows machine - we’ve been all Mac for about 15 years now - and have been looking for a good Windows email client that meets our needs) it wouldn’t set up a Gmail address if I didn’t export All Mail. It insisted on it. I was leery of doing that because I didn’t know what my other email clients were going to do when they saw it. But did. Then what I describe in the OP happened. Anyway, when I searched, I found some eM Client pages that explained that it needed All Mail because of the way Gmail works (I presume that this is because of the whole label thing but it’s my understanding that Gmail has done regular IMAP for some time - it’s all I’ve ever used.)

So I’ve researched this some and at least some of the problem is due to having to export “All Mail”. Gmail has a max per-day download limit. I don’t know what it is for the free accounts but for the paid (whatever they’re calling them today) accounts it is not more than 2500 MB/day download over IMAP. With Google reserving the right to change that limit at any time for any reason. Google doesn’t document the limits for the free accounts but it’s definitely less.

According to Google, the Gmail account I’ve been having trouble with is around 4GB. So “All Mail” for this account will take each client several days to download, almost immediately hitting the limit as soon as it is removed each day and blocking the account for the rest of the day. As a result, it seems that all kinds of bad things are happening very shortly after exporting “All Mail”. So regardless what eM Client otherwise does, requiring “All Mail” be exported is a non-starter for me. I can’t use eM Client because I can’t have Gmail basically disabled for like a week as every email client that accesses a given Gmail account tries to download “All Mail”. Not to mention the mess that importing “All Mail” makes in those other clients (being confronted with tens of thousands of new messages). And that’s assuming that the clients do something reasonable when the limit is reached and the download stops.

It would be nice if there were an eM Client option to use GMail as an ordinary IMAP server as an alternative to whatever sort of “enhanced” GMail functionality that using the “All Mail” folder and labels provides for those who either don’t want that enhanced functionality or can’t practically use it due to the download limits.

For now, barring any additional information provided in this thread, I will not be able to provide the information requested above because I am not going to turn “All Mail” back on again. And without it turned on I won’t be able to set up the account again in eM Client.

Gmail is not standard IMAP. They have their own system where there are only three folders; All Mail, Spam and Trash. If messages are not in the trash or spam folder they exist only in All Mail, and are then sorted into virtual folders by using labels like Inbox, Sent etc

If you disable All Mail in the Gmail IMAP settings, Gmail will not sync with the email client.

Why are you exporting All Mail?

@notMyUserName

it wouldn’t set up a Gmail address if I didn’t export All Mail. It insisted on

When you say eM Client insisted on you exporting All Mail before it would setup Gmail, at what point when setting up Gmail (in the EMC email setup wizard) did you see that ?

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[Note that when I say “export” I mean what Gmail calls “Make visible.” Once a label/folder is “Made visible”, IMAP clients that keep a local copy of everything will synchronize their local store with it, downloading everything in that IMAP folder.]

When adding a Gmail account to eM Client. I entered all the information for the Gmail account but did not have All Mail exported from Gmail because I have literally never had All Mail exported (on purpose). eM Client then told me that it could not continue unless I exported All Mail. The latest version of eM Client would simply not set up a Gmail account for me without my exporting All Mail first. And I found a help page at emclient.com that says that too. [Here it is: https://support.emclient.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/167/10/gmail---why-do-i-need-to-synchronize-the-all-mail-folder]

And Gmail will do ordinary IMAP. It didn’t used to a long time ago but it has for a long time now. Internally it uses the master database and labels but it will present those labels as IMAP folders to an IMAP client. You absolutely do not need to export All Mail in order to use an IMAP client with GMail. I’ve been doing it with a number of email clients since Google started supporting IMAP. And right now I am using it without All Mail exported with a brand new install of Thunderbird on Windows 10, several instances of Mail.app on MacOS and Aqua Mail on Android. You may not get all the Gmail functionality with IMAP but it works fine. [See, for example, Check Gmail through other email platforms - Gmail Help where it actually specifically warns: " Note: To avoid temporarily locking yourself out of your account, make sure you don’t exceed 2500 MB per day for IMAP downloads and 500 MB per day for IMAP uploads." Which is exactly what has been happening to me trying to sync All Mail.] If eM Client doesn’t want to do Gmail like this, that’s completely fine. I have no problem with that. But I don’t expect installing an email client to almost immediately wind up locking me out of my Gmail account. At least a warning would be nice.

Two very different things.

All you need to do to setup a Gmail account in eM Client is make the All Mail folder available to IMAP. That is the default Gmail setting. Then in eM Client use the Automatic Setup, enter your Gmail address and it is done.

So do that, then you can probably delete this whole thread.

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Sorry if we are having terminology differences. In all case what I mean is “make All Mail visible as an IMAP folder.” Hopefully that’s clear what I mean. I’m not sure what you are taking “export” to mean but I’ll stop using it if it will help clear things up.

If I make All Mail available to IMAP, eM Client (since I’ve got it set to make a local copy of everything, including attachments so I can search) and every other email client that can see that account will immediately start synching All Mail. And in my case - I’ve had a gmail account since before Gmail was even a public beta - that is about 5,000MB. And since Gmail will disable your account if you download more than 2,500MB/day on IMAP, I almost immediately get locked out of that Gmail account for a day. And then as soon as the lock-out ends it immediately happens again. Over and over. So, again in my case, I will wind up locked out of my Gmail account for more than a week while everything syncs All Mail.

I sat here and watched it happen in real time. And I was locked out of my email account from Sat -> yesterday when I realized what was happening and disabled All Mail. Everything’s been fine since then. Like I say, I harbor no ill will toward eM Client for this, it’s their product and they can support what they want. I am totally cool with that. More power to them. But, unfortunately, because I otherwise really like the product, I can’t use it.

eM Client only syncs the All Mail folder. It does not sync everything twice. So it makes no difference how much data is passed across if you sync only All Mail, or only everything else. It is the same amount of data. eM Client syncing All Mail is the same as Thunderbird syncing everything else.

If your provider does not allow you sufficient data to meet you needs, that is not the fault of any email client.

Export means, well export. It means creating a copy of the data outside of the application or server in a format that is portable and can be imported into another application.

But anyway, you have the method to use eM Client with Gmail.

If you don’t like that, don’t use eM Client.

I don’t think you are understanding. eM Client is not the only email client that accesses this account. This Win10 machine and several Mac and Android devices all do. And none of them have ever seen All Mail. It has never been Made Visible. Ever. For a reason. But as soon as it is Made Visible every one of them starts to sync all 5GB of it. And worse, since I don’t make all my Gmail Labels visible, All Mail contains tons of messages that are not otherwise seen outside of Gmail internally.

And it is not my provider that is limiting me but Google itself. Read the links I’ve provided above. Gmail itself limits Gmail accounts to 2,500MB/day. Once that’s exceed GMail itself locks you out for a day. Google does this, not my provider. So, in my case, All Mail can’t be synced even once without tripping Gmail’s IMAP limit twice. So I’m locked out for two days just installing eM Client. Then add in several other IMAP clients on other devices and I’m locked out for more than a week.

Google is your provider. They provide you with an email service, even if it is severely limited.

I’m not going to argue about this anymore. We are, and have been, talking exclusively about Gmail because eM Client only requires All Mail be made visible with Gmail. I think it’s fine that it does, but it doesn’t need to . Gmail does not require All Mail to be Made Visible for IMAP. Gmail will do ordinary IMAP without All Mail visibility just fine.

Anyway, if eM client at some point makes it possible to use Gmail without All Mail visibility I’ll try it again, but for now I can’t use it.

Yes, as far as I know Google is the only provider who uses that server model.

Yes, but it’s not required that it be used. Yes, it used to be, but that hasn’t been the case for a long time. All I am saying is that (1) eM Client is the only IMAP client that I’ve ever used that requires All Mail (including a number I am using right now); (2) It doesn’t have to do it that way; and (3) I can’t use it because it does.