Popup missing in sys notify mode, popup always-on-top in non-sys notify mode

1

emClient 7.2.36678.0
Windows 10 Home x64 1903

Configured emClient to NOT hide the popup alert (on getting a new e-mail).  Hide popup setting is disabled.  Want the popup to remain on the screen, so later when I am not busy then I can check if I want to address the e-mail at that time.

Sent a test e-mail, but emClient never showed its popup window.  Its tray icon changed but no popup window.  Eventually I figured out to get the popup by disabling the “Use system notifications” option.  emClient won’t work with system notifications, whatever those are.  emClient is not listed in the apps available to select whether they show notifications or not (Settings -> System -> Notifications & actions).  The “Get notifications from apps and other senders” is enabled.  The Mail for Windows 10 UWP/WinRT app is listed but disabled since I don’t want to get alerts of new e-mails from that app (because I hope to eventually replace it with emClient).  

Only by NOT using system notifications mode will emClient show its popup.  However, then the problem is the popup is always-on-top which interferes with my current work.  Yes, I got a new e-mail but I’m busy right then and, yes, I want the alert to stick around until I get to a point where I can pause my work and, yes, I want the popup still lingering around so I can check whether or not I want to address that e-mail at that time or wait until later.  When I can afford an interruption to check the popup, I still might not want to address it right then but still want the popup lingering around to remind me to check again later.

emClient is not listed as an app for which I can decide if it will present notifications in the Win10 settings, so I cannot select it to show or not show its notification bubble and an entry in the Action Center.  When trying to use system notifications mode, emClient won’t show its popup alerting arrival of a new e-mail.  With emClient configured to use its own popup instead of system notifications, yep, its popup appears but appears atop every other window to interfere with my use of those other programs.  E-mail is important but not so critical to demand my immediate attention and interrupt whatever I’m doing at the time.  The building on fire demands immediate attention.  An e-mail alert does not.  Always-on-top behavior is rude.

2

System notification are when the events are passed to the Windows 10 system and appear in the action center instead of an individual application pop-up.

They work just fine. You will need to configure Windows 10 to show them if they don’t appear.

3

In your screenshot, you show em Client is listed in the notifications for apps.  It’s not there for me.  I didn’t not install the em Client as a program.  I got it from Microsoft’s Store.  That is, I have your UWP/WinRT app, not your Win32 program.

Settings app -> System -> Notifications & actions -> Get notifications from these senders

em Client is NOT listed there, so I cannot enable it.  I already mentioned this absence in the 2nd paragraph of my opening message.  How do I get em Client listed as an app in the notification settings?

Also, since I’m currently forced to not use system notifications because they don’t work (and your app isn’t listed to enable them) and instead use your own popup window, can that window be configured to NOT be always-on-top since that interferes with me using other programs and continue my current workload?

I took a couple screenshots of the Notifications list.  There are 2 of them: 1 for the top end of the list and another after scrolling down.  em Client is not listed.  The pics are at:

https://imgur.com/N0Wp9uu
https://imgur.com/xgdaFlV

4

I have not tried the Store App version, but there have been one or two issues mentioned on this forum. You could always uninstall it, then download and install the latest version of eM Client as a regular application from the Release History. 

As far as I know you cannot configure the pop-ups in any way beyond what settings are there in eM Client.

5

Please submit an RFE (Request for Enhancement) against the UWP/WinRT “app” version of eM Client to get it properly registered upon installation to get it included in the list of apps that can be configured for system notification (using the Action Center and toast popups).  

I’ll be opening yet another thread about another problem with your app version of eM Client (doesn’t load on Windows startup despite the option is enabled).  Seems to be LOTS of problems with your app version, so maybe you should consider yanking it from Microsoft’s Store.

6

One thing: this is a community support forum. That means these are other users here providing comments. We are not eM Client Inc. so please don’t refer to this application as our application. We might be attached to it, but still, it is not ours. :wink:

If you want to submit a feature enhancement, create a new post on this forum, but make it an Idea not a Question. Other users will have the opportunity to vote on it, and if enough interest is shown, eM Client Inc. may consider it for future development.

As I have suggested, maybe you can consider NOT using the app version.

7

I uninstalled the UWP/WinRT app and installed the Win32 program.  Nope, eM Client is still not listed as an app for which I can configure its system notifications, even after a Windows reboot.  I’m at build 1903 (18362.356) of Windows 10 Home x64.  Perhaps Microsoft changed or enforced how an installer can register an app or program regarding system notifications.  

If I continue this second trial of eM Client (I gave up on the first trial), I’ll have to deselect its “Use system notifications” setting and revert to the old style of a popup alert window (which is nasty in using the always-on-top visual attribute).

8

I waited an age to have system notifications from eM Client, and it has worked since installing the service release. I am using the exact same Windows version for the screenshots above but I think the issue is with your Windows configuration. Maybe you could ask on a Windows forum, and post anything you find here.

9

I’ve tried hunting on “app missing windows 10 notifications settings” but the articles focus on how to use the notification settings (and assume the app is listed) rather than why an app is missing from that list.  I can keep looking, but it’s been fruitless, so far.  This was a fresh install of 1903, not an upgrade from 1809 or from an earlier version of Windows.  I suspect that I’ll have to research, as would a dev, on how to get an app registered for system notifications.  Since it took eM Client Inc an age to get the feature added, I’ll probably end up hunting for the solution.

From https://www.emclient.com/release-history , support for Win10 system notifications was added in 7.2.33939.0 released November 20, 2018, but they had problems with it.  Although added 10 months ago, looks like it is still considered a new feature and needs more bugs squashed.

By the way, I posted with Problem category figuring I was reporting, well, a problem.  I’ve looked around but I cannot find how the categories are differentiated from each other (Questions, Praise, Ideas, Problems, Announcements).  Praise and Announcements are mostly self-explanatory but a user reporting a problem is also asking a question which discovers an intrinsic problem with the software.  Didn’t know for sure which category to use, and Problem seemed most appropriate.  If the devs aren’t here monitoring the problems with their software, seems unlikely they’d be here monitoring the ideas.

10

From what I’ve found, so far, the list of apps that can use WPN (Windows Push Notifications) service are stored in an SQL database file found at:

\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Notifications\wpndatabase.db

That means you need a means of modifying the database (which is a binary file) to add/delete apps to let them use WPN.  Mostly I discovered this because someone reported on using DB Browser for SQLite to edit records in the database because they wanted to remove some apps from the “Get notifications from these senders” database.  The instructions were:

  1. Backup file: “%USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Notifications\wpndatabase.db”.
  2. Install application: DB Browser for SQLite.
  3. Open file: “%USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Notifications\wpndatabase.db”.
  4. Go to tab: “Execute SQL”.
  5. Enter and execute entry: “select * from NotificationHandler”.
  6. Find “HandlerID” for application you want to remove from “Get notifications from these senders”.
  7. Enter and execute entry: “delete from HandlerSettings where HandlerID = X”.
  8. Enter and execute entry: “delete from Notification where HandlerID = X”.
  9. Enter and execute entry: “delete from WNSPushChannel where HandlerID = X”.
  10. Enter and execute entry: “delete from NotificationHandler where HandlerID = X”.
  11. Save file: “wpndatabase.db”.
  12. Reboot your system.

This was to delete an app from the list of apps you could configure their notifications.  I’d have to dig into the database to see the structure of the records to figure out how a new entry got added.  However, I strongly suspect that Microsoft doesn’t want devs directly modifying the database, and instead provide some SDK for them to use; i.e., add a lib from the SDK where the installer would call a method to add an app to the database.

While I could possibly figure out how to modify the database to add a record defining eM Client as a WPN-capable client, that is the responsibility of eM Client, Inc’s devs to do in their installer’s code.  I shouldn’t be expected to fix their defect in however they thought they were adding a record for their program into the database via whatever SDK they used.

I found some old articles that said the database was stored as a binary string in a registry key under a data item named AppDB.  That’s not there in my build, but the wpndatabase.db is.  Could be Microsoft decided to switch from loading the database into memory as part of the loading the registry into memory when Windows starts, but later decided to go with a .db file (that also gets loaded into memory but would be accessed via an SDK or method in a lib provided by the SDK).  

https://tzworks.net/prototypes/wpn/wpn.users.guide.pdf
That’s just one article describing WPN.  Microsoft has tons of articles about it.  For a user, this is just ridiculous that I would have to delve into that level to determine why eM Client’s installer sometimes fails to register that program to integrate with system notifications.  What of interest on a quick scan of the above article is the statement:

  • Later versions of Windows 10 made changes to the internal store format of the notification records. The newer updated format makes use of the SQLite architecture to store the data.
    Oh oh.  How to do it before is not how to do it now.  The article does not specify as of which build/version of Windows 10 where Microsoft made a change (from using a binary string in the registry for the database to using an SQLite database file).  Perhaps you’ve been using eM Client long enough that you installed it in an older version of Windows 10 which allowed em Client’s installer to properly registry that program for WPN services, but now that code in the installer won’t work anymore.

eM Client will have to do more work on getting this feature ironed out.  Works for some users, like you, but not for other users, like me.  Well, that means it’s a flaky feature.  At this point, my stance is eM Client, Inc devs don’t really know how to properly or reliably register their Win32 program (or their UWP/WinRT app) to use WPN services when installed in the latest version(s) of Windows 10.  Installs done previously will likely continue to work after the change in how the WPN app list is databased.

11

I just installed a fresh copy of Windows 1903 in a VM, and then installed eM Client. The option is there in Windows settings, so it works. 

I have no idea why your does not show up. ;-(

If you have a Pro License, please open a support ticket with eM Client so they can look into this further for you.

They do monitor this forum, but generally don’t get involved.

12

I would have to buy a Pro license to then report bugs in their software.  Nope, I’m not paying to report bugs.

I have applied several tweaks to Windows 10 build 1903 since doing a fresh install of it about 3 weeks ago.  One of them was to get rid of Cortana, and also the web suggestions when doing a search.  

See my prior reply.  No tweak that I’ve done should interfere with an installer registering a program or app into the WPN database.

13

For personal use, a free application with a few bugs shouldn’t discourage you from using an otherwise excellent application. Please don’t give up.

I would open a support ticket on your behalf, but I cannot reproduce this problem. I guess you just need to use traditional pop-ups till you can work it out.

14

If my customized Win10 install is causing the problem, I seriously doubt that I’m unique in modifying Windows after installing it.  That means other users can and will be hit by the same incompatibilities encountered by eM Client’s installer (or its “Use system notifications” option if that is when they apply their code to update the WPN database).

15

On a bulk standard Windows installation the system notifications work just fine, so I guess it really depends on exactly what you have done to tweak Windows. Tweaking like just changing a few settings or really hacking the registry. I know utilities like Winaero Tweaker, and shell-type replacements can cause issues with a whole list of applications. Comes with the fragility of Windows. 

Maybe you could try creating a second user and see what the result is in that profile. 

16

I have fresh installation of Windows 10 and installed em client from windows store.
I have two same problems as VanguardLH:

  • emclient does not load on windows start
  • system notifications does not work (and em client is not listed in system settings for notifications)
    So I think standalone em client was ported to windows store but wasn’t properly tested…
17

I figured out how to get eM Client to load on Windows startup: don’t use the UWP/WinRT app version and instead using the Win32 program.  The “Load on system startup” option in eM Client doesn’t know how to add a startup entry for an app.  It can be done as follows (manually by the user):

  • In the address bar of File Explorer, enter “shell:appsfolder”.
  • Right-click on the eM Client app and select to create a shortcut.  You’ll have to put it on the desktop.
  • In the address bar of File Explorer, enter “shell:startup”.
  • Drag the shortcut you created to the app into the Startup folder.
  • Disable the “Load on system startup” option in eM Client.  It doesn’t work for apps.

That works to load the eM Client on login to your Windows account.  However, some shortcut attributes don’t apply to apps.  For example, if you don’t want eM Client’s window to appear when it loads, you can edit the properties of the shortcut to minimize the window (and configure eM Client to minimize to the system tray).  Alas, that attribute is not applied to the app when the shortcut loads it.  

You can add the eM Client *app* as a startup item (though the method is a bit obtuse and eM Client doesn’t know how to do it with its “Load on system startup” option), but you’ll end up with eM Client showing a normal-sized window when you login.

18

Because of other problems with their app version of eM Client, I dumped it.  Uninstalled their app and installed their Win32 program.  It’s “Load on system startup” option will then work by adding the MailClient.exe program under the HKCU Run registry key.  Alas, that’s not a shortcut, so you cannot configure it to minimize eM Client on loading when you login.    I could find no documentation on command-line switches for eM Client, like a /min command-line switch to load it but minimized.

I copied the command listed under the HKCU Run key and then deleted that key (or disable the “Load on system startup” option in eM Client’s config).  I then went to shell:startup in the address bar of File Explorer, right-clicked inside the folder to create a new shortcut, and copied the command to load eM Client into the shortcut.  I moved eM Client from the Run registry key to the Startup folder to load it on login.

With it being a shortcut and loading an .exe (instead of a registry defined AppID for the app version), I can configure the shortcut to open the window minimized.  That works in a shortcut that runs an .exe program.  With eM Client configured to “Minimize application to tray”, logging in loads eM Client using the shortcut which says to minimize the window, and eM Client’s config says to minimize to a tray icon.

19

Oh, by the way, the app version of eM Client did not add an entry under Notifications & Actions to let me enable/disable eM Client from using system notifications (aka Action Center and toast popups).  However, after uninstalling the app version and installing the Win32 program version, eM Client was still not listed under Notifications & Actions.  It’s possible that eM Client added an entry to the WPN (Windows Push Notification) database that is invalid and why eM Client wasn’t listed when installed as an app.  Perhaps uninstalling eM Client does not get it to update the WPN database to remove its record in there.  I’ve seen other users complain that uninstalling a program did not remove it from the list for Notifications & Actions, so they have an entry that is bogus because it is for an uninstalled program.  If eM Client’s uninstall doesn’t remove its WPN entry, and because that entry didn’t work to get it listed, then the Win32 program install of eM Client might not alter that unusable WPN entry, so eM Client remains unlisted.

A lot of guesses there.  I’ve seen software that screwed up the USB enumeration in the database, and the only cure was to delete the invalid enumeration entry in the registry and plug-in the USB device again or reinstall its software.  Could be the only way to get eM Client listed under Notifications & Actions would be to delete the WPN database and start anew.  Alas, that mean uninstalling and reinstalling every app and Win32 program that adds a record in the WPN database to get listed under Notifications & Actions.

20

Please see my last comment at https://forum.emclient.com/emclient/topics/cannot-get-em-to-run-minimized-at-startup for how to load eM Client minimized with Windows.